Comments on: The Impossiblity of Choosing God

By: Assentia

Assentia — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:47:20 +0000

Accepting Christ as Saviour and repenting of your sins through the sacrament of baptism is being Christian. Being a good Christian is another story. But in your view, one can be a Christian obeying God to their best ability and still end up damned because they are predestined to it.

Something does not become Christian doctrine just because it is in the Bible, and Satan can quote Scripture better than any minister.

By: Will Claybourne

Will Claybourne — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:23:28 +0000

But you don’t know if you really are a Christian, and if you are then you will want to obey God to your best ability.

…yet a decidedly Biblical tenet.

By: Assentia

Assentia — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:49:33 +0000

Then belief becomes a moot point, as do acceptance of Christ as Saviour and any concept of the wages of sin. If you are predestined to heaven, you will gewt there no matter how much you sin, and if you are predestined to hell, why make any effort to avoid sin antway? A decidedly un-Christian tenet.

By: Will Claybourne

Will Claybourne — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:57:59 +0000

No, I disagree with that. You see, I’m coming from a Presbyterian viewpoint, and in my writing above I didn’t take the time to go into the alternative, etc. But I believe that we are predestined before the beginning of time (Eph. 1:4-5).

By: Assentia

Assentia — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:35:00 +0000

‘We’re either saved or we’re not.’

Of course. At any given moment, we are one or the other. Trouble is, the next moment can reverse either situation. None alive is assured of being saved. Self-righteousness breeds complacency, which is the shortest cut to damnation.

By: Will Claybourne

Will Claybourne — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:15:42 +0000

Assentia:

We don’t have to accept that human nature from that fall is stronger than the divine, because the Fall was part of God’s plan.

Man’s nature since the Fall is evil, but I agree that that does not meant they will never do good. What I’m saying is that if we were to follow our natural inclination, without interference from God, then we would have no desire to follow Him.

And I do not believe that salvation is a work in progress; we’re either saved or we’re not.

By: Clark Bunch

Clark Bunch — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:47:35 +0000

Jesus Christ certainly did not save everyone when he died on the cross. I don’t know who believes that; it was your claim. Jesus did however shed his blood on the cross which is sufficient to save everyone. Yes, we need God’s help entirely. The Holy Spirit draws people towards God. I believe God in his grace calls everyone to repentence, but there are many who do not heed the call. Without God’s help, no one would come, and you are right. But God’s invitation is for everyone. Each person gets at least one chance, and some of us many more than one, to respond when the Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts. Those who deny the drawing of the Holy Spirit are comdemned to hell; turning away his spirit is the one sin for which there is no pardon.

By: Assentia

Assentia — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:25:37 +0000

I beg to differ. Christ’s death and resurrection recreated the potential of salvation for those who acknowledged him. Before that, the gates of Paradise were closed, even to the most virtuous. People ever since have Adam’s choice again: to follow or disobey. Yes, God could have saved everyone, if he wanted, but he won’t save those who don’t want to be saved.

Secondly, if we are to accept that human nature since the Fall has been evil, then we have to accept that the human will is stronger than the divine, to overrule God’s plan so finally. Plus, there are countless examples of good people who are tempted into evil, and evil people who end up doing some good. A certain predisposition does not mean that people are meant to always act upon it.

In short, I believe you are arguing from false premises, your first one assuming that God doesn’t value free will (Adam being himself proof to the contrary), and the second one actually stating that free will does not exist. In fact, we choose with every breath. Salvation is a work in progress, and nobody is assured of it until they cross into the Hereafter.